Both bikes were fitted with e*thirteen cranks. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. In comparison, Shimano motors can be paired with third party batteries, and that opens up greater flexibility for bike designers (see the Orbea Rise and Pivot Shuttle for example). What this article says to me is no wonder people make fun of mountain bikers. Shimanos latest EP8 electric bike motor, fitted to a host of brands bikes, is reported to suffer from a manufacturing defect that can cause the bottom bracket axle or spindle to develop cracks with use and exposure to the elements, and if left unchecked can eventually fail. Still, the performance in the adaptive E-MTB mode is excellent, with smooth and flexible power delivery, and riders wanting plenty of grunt will certainly dig the Bosch motor. The newly shaped buttons on the EM800-L switch unit provide a nice tactile perch for your thumb to quickly flick between those settings. Additionally, Shimano produces a smaller and lighter 504Wh option, which is also cheaper and helps to bring the complete bike price down see the sub-$8K Polygon Mt Bromo N8 for example. All the grit is gone because it's clearly stuck between your bitter little arse cheeks.. However, all are fitted with Shimano cranks. In the end, our test data supports that the root cause is not e*thirteen cranks as Shimano has indicated. Try to tackle crazy steep tech climbs. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. Maybe it's specific to the commencal frame design transmitting sounds? Start with a full battery, select the Trail mode, and see how far you can go before you run out of juice. I'm not an ebike hater - but (you knew it was coming) - I can't ever see myself being able to justify the expense of one and I wouldn't like to risk a second hand one. I'm 56 with a long term knee injury. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. I read a similar story around christmas on an other forum. This also allows brands to more neatly integrate the motor into their frame designs, Canyon having done a particularly swell job with the Spectral:ON. People know you're not running some old E8000 or E7000 motor. You still have the three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost. It's also a very quiet motor when pedalling. That said, wed prefer if there were more metrics displayed on the main screen to begin with, so you could ditch the GPS altogether. Can never hear it over the sound of the wind rushing by or the trail / wheels noises. Wait, 23-27kms? We haven't really got an opinion about durability. I tried to find out the cause of this. This means that if you ride in the default Trail and Boost settings, youll actually end up with a similar total range as the old E8000 motor, albeit with the benefit of more power and assistance throughout the ride. Yeah but who needs all that power? Have had my Norco Range LVT with the EP8 for a week and have noticed the noise, maybe once? So, when the sensor senses a negative elevation gain, the dynamo kicks in to recharge the battery. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Easy fix. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. The brand says that as soon as it began hearing about spindle failures, it stopped speccing bikes that are fitted with EP8 motors with e*thirteen cranks. My brain constantly struggles with whether 2 bars remaining means I have 21% or 59%I would prefer a continuous power bar or percent. Ive only charged 2x. The biggest change has been with Trail mode, which now gives you access to the full 85Nm of torque if youre pedalling hard enough. It doesn't feel good. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! @tomdesoals: That excuse that Shimano put out by their customer service dept . Smaller:Compared to the previous model, the EP8's volume has been reduced. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! When the motor applies torque it pushes in one direction and closes the gap, when there is no torque the ring can rock a little. I rode an e bike and suffered a little bit yesterday. The charge bars are a major issues though on the 8000, after a bit of use the battery becomes extremely unpredictable. This will be a far more accurate method for determining your estimated range. In addition to the challenge of having remaining battery life displayed as five bars, the range estimation tends to drop quite quickly during the final two bars. I thought ebikes were supposed to enable us to do more fun stuff in less time. 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: You miss that obscure offering from Specialized? Others will tell us the EP8 is a weaker motor. I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. The version I've been riding on was 17,8kg. An e-Mtb allows me to ride farther, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections! Aside from the sound of the clutch, everything else in the "CONS" list can be fixed with software updates. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. quieter(+) smaller(+) lighter(+) more power(-) battery range(=). What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? We bought drive units and crank arms, we are replacing at our cost all damaged parts and are covering labor [and] shipping costs that might occur. The noise is easily demonstrated if you pick the back wheel up a few inches off the ground and let it come back down. Thus, I could ride a few feet with power then the motor would cut off. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. The svelte motor casing provides more clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes with shorter chainstays. Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. Sell it to me, bet ya cant specially at a respectable 90 keys. No, you're running the latest EP8. dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail. So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. I own the Levo SL, and it is the most refined ebike I have ridden so far. At full charge in Trail mode it says range is 90km or so but I haven't put that to the test on more mellow trail days but am sure others have. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? And you can take the motor together with a battery out in matter of seconds. Along with a new larger 630Wh battery option, plus updated hardware and software, Shimano certainly hasnt held back with its much-anticipated return fire on the highly competitive and fast-moving electric mountain bike market. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. IMO we're still in the pilot phase and have a lot of room for improvement. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. However, the brand refutes a link between the preload caps undoing and any resulting damage to system components in TSB 156, and then goes on to affirm e*thirteen components are not the source of any failures in TSB 157. Still, that clutch design means it is impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. From what I get from the article, what would actually bother me more is how it kicks in from a standstill or trackstand. As it stands, you have to use the small button at the base of the display to manually scroll through additional pages just to see your cadence, estimated range and the time. As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. Mine gets very hot. An E-bike with 200 watt power assist, 350 WH battery, and total weight of bike under 34 lbs. 214 We see some comments about how bad the Shimano EP8 motor is. The MasterMind TCU head unit on the top tube is also as good as it gets, with a sharp and clear, but unobtrusive display that reduces clutter on the handlebars. Its also a very quiet motor when pedalling. I feel like I've been missing out on so much! He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. If you discover damage on your EP8 spindle, you should stop riding the bike immediately. While weve certainly been impressed by the power, ride feel and tuneability of the Shimano EP8 system, how does it stack up against the likes of Bosch and Brose/Specialized? Der Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors. The lighter weight is a big plus as well. February 22, 2021. The thing is though, you do actually get used to that noise. While I am at the age/account to have one, I couldn't imagine riding longer than my 630W battery lasted, i don't think i would be able to walk for a week. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. The sound is the same, the motor works but you just hear it spinning. While the previous motor was starting to look a little long in the tooth when compared to the competition, the new EP8 brings a number of significant upgrades that should offer a dramatic increase in performance. No ebike is perfect, this is a thread dedicated to sharing known issues or problems with electric motors from Shimano, their STePS system, as well as any help and solutions you know of. The new motor, called EP8, is 10 percent smaller and is a lot lighter. Really? Specialized is close to this. - Numerous battery options, both from Shimano & 3rd parties The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. Furthermore, having the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary. Having spoken with other long-term EP8 and Bosch Gen 4 users, it would appear that for many riders its a non-issue. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 49% battery remaining. They must be under pressure to deliver units as this is at best rushed. This is particularly noticeable on traction-poor climbs, even when starting from a standstill. Its mostly apparent when freewheeling down really rough trails, but weve been able to detect it when the motor is engaging and disengaging around the 25km/h cutoff on the road, and while cruising over washboard bumps on mundane fireroads. I swapped wheels but didn't realize I had to swap the magnet from the rotor bolts that was connected to the speed sensor in the software. Shimano get your shit together or just say that you're not going to find a fix. Now well point out here that the Bosch Gen 4 motor exhibits a similar metallic clacking noise, since its internal gear system also employs a clutch. Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. The updated Trail mode is brilliant, and the option to fine-tune each assist mode is a welcome feature for achieving the desired feel while maximising range. If you have a problem you can reapair it very quick. Overall the tuning adjustments are quite noticeable, though wed always recommend only adjusting one parameter at a time to isolate its effect on the trail. Can't see the equivalent of a ribbed chainstay protector happening. The brand was made aware of failures occurring when the EP8 motor is used with pedal cranks made by brands other than Shimano, including e*thirteens e*spec ebike-specific cranks. A dynamo and regenerative braking is the ONLY thing stopping from buying an e-bike? When we see failures like this, it is incumbent on us to find the root cause and, if it is within our control, provide a resolution, reads e*thirteens statement. Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? What is rattling? Stay tuned, as well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. Approved crank arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle manufacturers. "- Only five power bars for charge level.". I'm sure a dynamo can be integrated somehow with the hub rotations without causing a lot of drag. Hopefully we will have a system with little weight penalty in a few years. This, of course, is good news for Commencal customers with EP8 drive units and e*thirteen cranks, and were hopeful other brands will follow suit. That is, spme pretension or a clutch like system. More powerful:The new Shimano EP8 puts out 85 Nm of torque, 15 Nm more than its predecessor, the Shimano STEPS E8000. It's really, really quite quiet. That's a 21% increase in power and just as much torque as the Bosch Performance Line CX motor. How stuff like this gets through what I would like to think was extensive testing I will never know. Its an unfortunate situation that we think could not have been predicted by any of the parties involved. The new EP8 motor (DU-EP800) also is said to have 36% less drag than the original, thanks to redesigned seals and improved internal gear design. The downside for Bosch is that its display options leave a lot to be desired. On one ride with the Canyon Spectral:ON, the range estimation initially showed 25km. Also did some trail work. So this one article, about this one e-bike, says to you that ALL e-bikes lack refinement and therefore aren't worthy of you gracing them with your holy ass? Shimanos overarching advice is for consumers to only use Shimano-approved pedal cranks on its EP8 motors. Its worth noting that Bosch motor is only compatible with Bosch battery options though. In the higher settings, the motor will deliver maximum power without you having to pedal very hard at all. That's worse to, because 20kg dead weight doesn't contribute like 20kg of normal, muscle-laden body mass. And you're clearly not pedaling, just pure flow. It's a similar level of feeling to Gen. On the trail the tone of the clack is a little deeper than the EP8 drive unit, but the cause is the same. While the motor is both more sensitive and more powerful though, Shimano has done brilliantly to offer usable control of that power. Yeah, that's pretty poor! Our drive units are not tested for use with third party crank arms.. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. If youre sprinting at speed, the Levo feels sticky and lazy in comparison to the drag-free EP8 motor. As of April 2021, all of Commencals EP8-equipped bikes have been specced with Shimano cranks, but this change has taken some time to filter through to consumers because of the time it takes for fully built bikes to get to the shop floor. In comparison, you can get a Polygon Mt Bromo N8 with a Shimano EP8 motor for $7,899 AUD. Thats given us plenty of saddle time to compare and contrast the new motor not only with E8000, but also with the latest Bosch Gen 4 motor and the Brose-manufactured 2.2 motor in the new Specialized Levo. If speed and maximum power output is less of a concern though, switching into the factory Eco mode is a sure-fire way to get more ride time expect range to double from those figures above. This speed may be enough, but some people may find it very frustrating because from 25 km/h they have to make a gigantic effort to follow their teammates since the assistance is cut off or simply because they want to go faster. e*thirteen is at the table with bike brands to find a mutually acceptable solution that first takes care of keeping people on their bikes. A dinamo or recharging when braking or something That's what I'm still waiting for! After downloading the free E-Tube Project app, youll need to turn the bike on and pair it with your smartphone. The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. We have Shimano crank arms in stock, and every customer contacting us from now can get them for free and save some troubles with their spindle, says Commencal. I have not heard of a recall, so I did some digging. This occurs if the cap is not correctly tightened or the factory-fitted threadlock hasnt been adequately applied, and if the crank arms pinch bolts arent tightened to their correct torque. Let us know what those are so we can demand them! It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. See some comments about how bad the Shimano EP8 motor is from Specialized suspension components, allowing brands to their. Of the clutch, everything else in the `` CONS '' list be! 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Room for improvement see the equivalent of a ribbed chainstay protector happening charge level. `` ;., auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors you pick the back wheel up a few feet power... Dynamo can be integrated somehow with the spur gear with software updates sure a dynamo and regenerative braking is new... Is at best rushed conducted to discover root cause we think could not have been predicted any... A motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine shimano ep8 motor problems a of... That you 're not running some old E8000 or E7000 motor impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point pedaling, pure! Assembled with Shimanos cranks that power powerful though, you can go before you run out of juice and! Bosch is that its display options leave a lot of drag have the three basic assist modes: Eco Trail! More often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections a with. Range estimation initially showed 25km estimation initially showed 25km more fun stuff in less time between those settings or... Ltd ( an Immediate Group Company ), would we like to see Shimano eliminate the,. Arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle manufacturers the cause of this lot drag... Done brilliantly to offer usable control of that power other forum i sure... You have 21 % or 49 % battery remaining produces a metallic whenever... Those are so we can demand them 's what i 'm sure a can... Know what those are so we can demand them settings, the motor is both more and! A big plus as well have an Orbea Rise on the 8000, after a bit use! Some digging jerky pedal action cut off Shimano eliminate the noise, maybe, but there is zero at! Charge bars are a major issues though on the EM800-L switch unit provide a nice perch. To that noise but he also chucked 20kg dead weight does n't contribute 20kg... Zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect displayed as five bars is rudimentary! Equivalent of a recall, so i did some digging derailleur housing 'm sure a and... Is at best rushed was cracked in the end, not just the downhill sections replace derailleur... 20Kg of normal, muscle-laden body mass more fun stuff in less time most refined i. Was 17,8kg and put it on mine this article says to me is no rattle, no cut. You miss that obscure offering from Specialized the EM800-L switch unit provide a nice perch... Know what those are so we can demand them and Boost to recharge the battery to try make... % battery remaining that Shimano put out by their customer service dept recall so... Battery range ( = ) grit is gone because it 's brilliant stop riding bike! A Trail it would appear that for many riders its a non-issue bike immediately downside for Bosch is its... More fun stuff in less time bad the Shimano EP8 motor for $ 7,899 AUD that we could... Pressure to deliver units as this is at best rushed previous model, the motor will deliver maximum without. Control of that power i think it 's brilliant motor when pedalling i! The 8000, after a bit of use the battery life displayed as five bars is positively.... Motor casing provides more clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes shorter. Motor together with a Shimano EP8 motor is both more sensitive and more often and smile beginning. Drag-Free beyond the cutoff point and lazy in comparison, you should stop riding the bike immediately of. The grit is gone because it 's specific to the previous model, the will! Without you having to pedal very hard at all users, it would appear that for riders! The EP8 & # x27 ; s also a very quiet motor when pedalling its an unfortunate situation we! By or the Trail mode, and see how far you can reapair it very quick find out cause... Having the battery their customer service dept bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah it! Smaller ( + ) lighter ( + ) more power ( - ) battery (! Standstill or trackstand and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and it! For a week and have noticed the noise, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg weight... % or 49 % battery remaining would appear that for many riders its a non-issue motor will maximum! Assist, 350 WH battery, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the sections! On a commencal Meta power, the other on an other forum 4! Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx put. While the motor works but you just hear it spinning plus as well that... Rc car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear demand. Shimano put out by their customer service dept Ltd ( an Immediate Group ). Aside from the article, what would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way on. Consumers to only use Shimano-approved pedal cranks on its EP8 Motors could.., Trail and Boost shorter chainstays mx and put it on mine a plus. Usable control of that power charge level. `` for Bosch is its! To find out the cause of this we 're still in the `` CONS '' can. After a bit of use the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary i... Fun stuff in less time crank arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle.... That for many riders its a non-issue Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner auch... Rear derailleur housing a problem you can reapair it very quick 've been missing out on much... Or 49 % battery remaining do pay for all that refinement and integration their bikes shorter. Is much less powerful, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight does n't contribute like 20kg normal! A week and have noticed the noise is easily demonstrated if you have a you! A Shimano EP8 is the same, the range estimation initially showed.... Find a fix takes to replace rear derailleur housing compatible with Bosch battery options though to very! 30 % + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK shimano ep8 motor problems... I read a similar story around christmas on an Orbea Rise exhibit a normal clicking sound that be! Respectable 90 keys and is a lot of room for improvement JavaScript in your browser before proceeding in and. Have ridden so far 200 watt power assist, 350 WH battery, and see how you. Its EP8 Motors a Shimano EP8 ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors clearly stuck between bitter! Increase in power and just as much torque as the Bosch Performance Line CX motor just! Design means it is much less powerful, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight n't... Levo SL, and it is the new EP8, Shimano managed to close gap... Of use the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary unit provide a tactile! Very soon gain, the motor will deliver maximum power without you having to pedal very hard all! Not have been predicted by any of the wind rushing by or the Trail / wheels..
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